In lateuary, a new podcast ca Grounded with Dinée Dorame hit the running scene. Dinée is the podcast host, a lifelong creative, a citizen of Navajo Nation, and a self-identified running nerd. Her podcast explores the intersection between running, community, land, and culture. Even though running is her current focus, she hopes to eventually hold conversations with all types of athletes. So far, she has interviewed Jordan Marie Daniel, Meb Keflezighi, and Alvina Begay.
Outside of podcasting, Dinée is the associate director of nonprofit College Horizons, where she supports Native students through higher education.
The week of Dinée’s launch, we caught up about her mission to uplift Indigenous stories and runners, how she writes and talks her ideas into fruition, her love of notebooks, what it’s like to fund a podcast, and how she finds guests and comes up with questions.
What are your crafts?
I’d like to think I’ve always been a creative person. Even though I’m a podcaster now, I’m still getting used to labeling myself like that. Even though I would describe my craft as podcasting, because it’s a one-woman show, there are layers to the craft. It’s always been my dream to do a little bit with graphic design. I took some classes in it at Yale and it’s been fun to flex some of that knowledge on my own show. I created my own logo and all my own marketing design. I built my own website. I edit my own episodes. And then, of course, I’m an interviewer. That’s the meat of the job right now.
Tell me about the podcast. What compelled you to start it?
Running has been a thread throughout my life. It’s been something that has literally grounded me. I ran cross country in high school, but I think I knew I wanted to incorporate running into something creative and expressive once I graduated from Yale University in 2015. The seven years I spent in New Haven, Connecticut, were very different than growing up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I loved my time at Yale and in Connecticut. I really enjoyed the work I was doing in the admissions office, reading applications sent from around the country, recruiting Native students, and working with the Native community. But over time, the East Coast started wearing on me because I wasn’t near my family or homelands. I was hurting internally because of that. During that challenging time, running was my only outlet and my way to connect with the place around me. As a Native person, I have such a deep connection to place so that displacement was really stressful. My partner is also Navajo. We met at Yale, but he’s from Albuquerque as well. We both felt called to go back home.
Since moving back, it’s been rejuvenating to run again on the dirt trails that I am used to. It has restored a part of me. It was at that time in 2019 that I found the Ali On The Run podcast. I was so inspired by her content and the amazing professional runners she had on as guests. I thought it was such a great way to spend my time outdoors—running and listening. I kind of binged her show. That was an important part of my story because that’s when I shifted my mindset. I thought, as great as this podcast and other running podcasts are, I’m just not hearing from Native runners. I don’t think I listened to a single Native runner until 2020. The blending of those two things—of me finding a great outlet in podcasts but really feeling like there was something missing for me—led to my podcast. Then the Tracksmith application opened up.
Listen, review, and subscribe to Grounded Podcast with Dinée Dorame
That leads nicely into the topic of funding. What has helped you get this started, and what else have you learned about compensation?
I was one of several creators awarded a fellowship from Tracksmith. I’m so grateful for the support because I was able to buy myself a new computer, a microphone setup, some editing and recording software, a Dropbox account, a hosting platform, a website, and email tools. Even though I had the fellowship money, I still used extra money on top of that for other things because I’m getting the fellowship in installments. I still don’t have any leftover to compensate myself, but the funds have been super helpful in keeping me from not losing money. But I hope to be able to compensate myself someday.
I technically don’t have a sponsor right now even though I won the Tracksmith fellowship. I’ve had the gracious mentorship of Mario Fraioli, who runs The Morning Shakeout podcast and newsletter. Tracksmith connected me with him and he has become my super good friend through this process. He’s given me a lot of advice on the sponsorship process and has shared basically everything with me, like how to pitch brands and ask for compensation. There are all these smokescreens around it. That level of access has been crucial because now I’m not going to undersell myself. Luckily, all the podcasters I’ve spoken to have been really open with me. From what I’ve learned, it seems like in the running industry you can get between $200 and $400 per episode. It varies. Maybe for some people it’s $100. Maybe for more popular podcasts it’s $800.
How do you function in the creative mindset?
I haven’t really reflected on that in this process yet. But I don’t feel like something is an idea until I’ve written it down. I love to buy new notebooks. I’m such a notebook and planner nerd. So when I was ruminating on this idea, I got a new notebook and I’ve been tracking my ideas in that. I still have notes from the first night I sat down. I love to write things down over a beer or a glass of wine, and I work really late at night when I’m totally alone and my notifications are off.
The other part of my creative process is talking about an idea. I love brainstorming with my partner and getting his feedback. He is also really creative. We like to work together and have done a lot of projects over the years, like as co-presidents of the Association of Native Americans at Yale while we were in college. I definitely have the tendency to be more anxious about things and get down on myself. It’s hard to believe for some people, but I’m more of a glass-half-empty kind of person, unfortunately. I’ll think of all the things that will go wrong before I think of all the things that will go right. He’s the most positive person ever. He’ll equalize that feeling for me. He’s sort of served as the unofficial producer throughout it. When I’m thinking about interviews now, I’ll ask him what he wants to know about the person. I’m coming at it from a female, Native runner perspective. My partner is white, but he’s Navajo. We are definitely coded differently and have different experiences because of that. Being able to bounce an idea off of someone who’s coming at it from a different perspective is really useful. He’ll see things that I won’t see, and vice versa. We go on a lot of walks, and I’ll sometimes think over ideas on runs. That’s really where the show was born.
Stay in the know and connect with Dinée on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.
How do you find your guests?
I’m a huge running nerd. I always say I’m not the fastest runner, but I’m a student of the sport. I grew up with it as a part of my household every day because of my dad’s experience with coaching for 40 years. He’s a state-winning track coach and record-setting basketball coach. That experience has meant I’ve spent my life getting to know runners and athletes. What you learn pretty quickly is that even though there are probably millions of runners in the U.S., the core and passionate running community is pretty tight knit. I like that because that’s very familiar for me as a Native person. I would say Indian country is pretty tight knit as well. Running felt like that same warm hug. So the first night I wrote the proposal for Tracksmith, I also wrote a really long dream guest list with my partner. I literally listed over 100 people I wanted to interview. I just pulled from the people I have been wanting to hear from for a long time. It’s a mix. Some of them are amazing, non-Native runners who I’ve looked up to over the years. And then a lot of them are Native people. Some of them are my family members. I hope to interview my mom and my dad at some point.
How do you come up with questions?
Every time I went on a run and listened to an episode, I felt like I was itching to ask the guest—especially Native guests—even more questions. It was a signal that maybe I should be interviewing people. It can be a frustrating process as a Native person because people know so little about where you come from. I had to go through the American education system learning a very white-washed version of history and learning colonization from the perspective of colonizers. I also had to understand my own ancestral knowledge and do my own personal research on the history of my tribal nation and other tribal Native communities. I think many Native people find themselves being the spokesperson for all Native people. But it’s like, we’re not a giant monolith. I have this two-way street view of people who aren’t like me, but I feel like they have a one-way street view, and they often aren’t very educated around Native issues. It’s unfortunately a failure of the education system, but that is something that puts the burden on Native people to do all the teaching in any field, especially podcast interviewing. When a Native runner goes into a podcast interview, they often get asked about Native history or broad issues. That’s not helpful for a Native listener. I’m really excited to uplift a lot of Indigenous voices. It’s really important to me that I have a diverse cast of people, but that I also showcase the diversity of Native communities.
What do you love so much about the audio form?
Even though I love writing stuff down, I have to talk about it too. I love having conversations. I love just shooting the shit with people at the brewery. My partner and I are very talkative people. We’ve spent 10 months in this house going on walks or driving or sitting in our backyard. I think we’re both very intellectual people and like talking about ideas and things we’ve heard about the world. That’s been a practice for me my whole life and I love that there is a certain level of casualness in audio.
I lean a bit more anxious and perfectionist in my writing. But with audio, I don’t feel the need to go back over what I’ve said because it’s just a conversation. I think I relax a little bit more. It’s so great to capture people’s thoughts from their own words, from their own mouths, in the moment. I can only wrap somebody up in a certain way so much. To hear straight from these awesome Olympians on how they stay stay motivated is so cool. There’s something that feels so connected when you’re listening to a podcast. It feels like you’re right there. I hope to eventually incorporate some writing element, but I don’t know what that looks like yet.
What have you learned about podcasting?
I’ve learned that this is really hard. Being a creative person is a lot of fun, but a lot of people think that you just put something out there yet so much work goes into it. That’s a very new feeling and realization for me. I just spent a full 48 hours of my weekend working on this. And I did the same thing last weekend. I basically have two jobs right now. In order to make this passion happen and bring it to life, I think there are pieces of myself and my life that I have to sacrifice. I have a lot respect for the other podcasters out there, whether it’s their main job or their second job. Either way, the amount of time that goes into it is just incredible. Shoutout to anyone who’s doing anything artistic and creative right now.
What do you want people to take away from your work?
I guess there’s a few things. First, I want BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, People of Color) to feel seen, valued, and heard. For my entire life, I’ve watched mainstream media overlook the contributions of Indigenous athletes, and I really hope to feature runners from our communities often. Secondly, I want non-Native people to understand that Native people are multidimensional, whether that’s through listening to me directly or one of my guests. I’m also hoping to show that finding a way to connect with the space around you not only gives you a better understanding of who you are and where you come from, but cultivates a greater respect for the people and the world around you. That’s where the word “grounded” comes from. I would love to get more people outside and learning about the space around them. Running has always been my favorite way to do that.
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